Diskuto:Skota lingvo
Mi ŝlosis ĉi tiun artikolon por movoj, pro uzanto Theo daŭre movis ĝin al la fremdalingva titolo "Scots". Mi prizorgos ĉi tiun artikolon kontraŭ plua vandalismo, kaj malŝlosos ĝin baldaŭ. -- Yekrats 16:03, 13. Apr 2006 (UTC)
Hey guys. Sorry I don't speak Esperanto (got better things to do than that), but why is Scots being referred to as "Scottish language". Whoever did this is pig ignorant; "Scots" used like this refers to the form of English spoken in Scotland, compared with England. "Scottish language" equates to no modern language. c/f en:Scottish language Since most Scots are not even aware that "Scots" is supposed to be a language, "Scottish language" will be understood as meaning "Gaelic" (btw until the end of the middle ages, this was known only as "Scottish" in English). I see I'm the second person to have a problem with this. As Esperanto is a made up language, you guys can't cite established usage. If you can cite any usage, then it'll be the ignorant mistake of another person silly enough to learn Esperanto. xxx -- Terminator IV 18:51, 7. Aŭg 2006 (UTC)
- Please check out this site from the Esperanto Association of Scotland, which describes the three languages of Scotland.
- * La Lingvoj de Skotlando (The Languages of Scotland)
- Since they are the official Esperanto club of Scotland, I think they should know what they are talking about. What would be this "established usage" you are talking about? And how would you suggest that we "fix" this, so that you are happy? -- Yekrats 20:43, 7. Aŭg 2006 (UTC)
- The people who wrote that decided that themselves. Scots does not and cannot mean "Scottish language", since "Scottish" could, and historically does refer to Gaelic, and its status as a "language" rather than a dialect or group of dialects is disputed. Those people or their source clearly didn't know how to render "Scots" in a new language, which isn't surprising since if you look at the interwiki, most prefer to import the term "Scots". I'd suggest eo.wiki do the same and name the page simply "Scots". Otherwise eo.wiki users can rightfully be accused of POV pushing and trying to undermine the status of the indigenous Scottish language in favor of a group of defunct English dialects. Terminator IV 15:04, 8. Aŭg 2006 (UTC)
- "Skota lingvo" is the Esperanto phrase for "Scots language". That is the phrase that was decided on before I became an Esperantist, and it seems to be the regularly accepted term for the language that I can find at many sources on the Internet. Since this seems to be the accepted form, I challenge you to find references to "Scots" (or whatever form you prefer) used in Esperanto. Since you are the one demanding the change, it is up to you to provide the proof. You might start your search Scottish poet and Nobel Prize nominee William Auld, one of the great poets and translators of Esperanto, who has written a set of essays about the Scots language in Esperanto: La skota lingvo hodiaŭ kaj hieraŭ. ("The Scots language today and yesterday.") I have not read it myself, but maybe it might shed light on the situation.
- Nobody here is trying to undermine anything, especially language or national heritage. Language diversity and preservation is very important to us. When you read the words "Skota lingvo", please understand that the phrase is the equivalent to the English word "Scots". -- Yekrats 20:16, 8. Aŭg 2006 (UTC)
- Yekrats, the English word "Scots" does not mean "Scottish language" in English. If I had so much time to waste that I could learn Esperanto, I'd simply ignore William Auld's POV and inaccurate translation. If Hitler was writing in Esperanto and translated "Jew" as Underpeople, would you be slavishly following him. No, I'm sure you wouldn't. Yekrats, I told you before, "Scots" does not mean "Scottish language"; it is the Scots word imported into standard English used when referring to their dialect in reference to common English; when refering to it in contrast to another language, it is Inglis (i.e. English). See en:Scottish language for what Scottish language means in English. Esperanton is a made up language, so please don't feed us BS about established usage. Terminator IV 02:00, 20. Aŭg 2006 (UTC)
The big problem here is the use of "Skota lingvo" which if my scant knowledge of Esperanto serves me correctly means "the Scottish language". Well it isn't. It's one of them but not "La Skota Lingvo".
- Exactly - Terminator IV 02:00, 20. Aŭg 2006 (UTC)
- Esperanto was published in 1887, and at least since the early 20th century it is a living language; so it certainly does make sense to speak of "established usage".
- Your mistake is to think that "Skota lingvo" means "Scottish language". Well, it just dousn't! "Skota lingvo" means "Scots language". To translate "Scottish language" into Esperanto, you have to say "lingvo de Skotlando". (In some cases "skota" can be translated as "Scottish", but not when used in combination with "lingvo"; if you know something about how different languages function differently and about problems of translation, you should know very well that it is a common phenomenon that a word has to be translated differently according to the context). Marcos 14:56, 22. Apr 2008 (UTC)
- In English, exists both "scots" and "scottish". That distinction isn't there in Esperanto so as Marcos points out "skota lingvo" means "Scots language" (also, not "the Scottish langage"). "Skota" alone would be insufficient as a title (giving no indication that it refers to something spoken). Perhaps the introduction should mention that it's generally regarded as a dialect of English rather than a separate language though? There does seem to be some POV here. -AlexW 09:50, 15. Jul 2008 (UTC)
Marcos' explanation is unconvincing. In English, "Scots", "Scottish" and "Scotch" are all synonyms. Lallans is not the sole language of the Scots. It is not even native to most of the area of Scotland.
Ne estas "Skota lingvo"[redakti fonton]
Li estas Lalansa-Skota lingvo aux Skota-Angla lingvo.-86.129.162.179 13:31, 29 maj. 2022 (UTC)